I believe this is entirely work-safe, unless you work for the pharmaceutical industry (sorry Joseph... but hey they don't even let you access lj at work anymore)
Oh. Um, sorry. I was going by your work-safe warning-a-ma-doo. Sometimes my posting practices are a bit careless, as you may have noticed. I was trying to figure out why we aren't LJ friends anymore.
Anyway, that's not really a big deal, but I think you might want to check out my latest entry. Which is to say, I want you to check out my latest entry. :)
Oh, I automatically defriend any vegetarian who rants about being vegetarian ;p I did it to phil, and to a girl from work. Not worth the stress. But we are still friends in the real world, as long as the veg-shpiels don't come out there too ;D
One thing I want to mention though, on the health bit- you yourself have talked about metabolic acidosis, the condition in which an excess of protein causes blood acidification. The body responds by leaching calcium from the bones to buffer the acid, and can lead to osteoporosis as well as renal cancer (when the calcium and proteins are excreted through the urine). I don't think there's direct proof that American meat & dairy consumption causes the unusually high rates of osteoporosis in this country, but it's a pretty strong correlation.
I mean... like, I'm trying not to be an overzealous veg-converter, but surely (for the sake of my curiosity) you've at least taken this into consideration?
for god's sake bryan, the fact that you'd even post that response shows that you clearly don't understand why it's offensive to be ranted at about dietary habits. There are far too many things to take into consideration about a person's diet. Whatever statistics say are only statistics, and every day there are unique individuals who suffer greatly from being treated as statistically normal people. BESIDES that, yes, Americans eat too much fucking meat, but correlation is not causation, and we also eat too much in general, treat the animals terribly (which produces abnormal amounts of hormones and chemicals in the meat from stress), and feed them poison, and as a culture our health has degenerated alongside the nutrient value of our crops because of our overcultivation of the soil. It's more than just "meat and poultry" that has a negative effect on out health. The decades of insisting that milk is the best source of calcium (when it's not) probably also had a huge impact on the increasing rates of osteoporosis. And the chemicals that we're pumped with by doctors and through pollution don't exactly help either. Each new generation has been born weaker and weaker over the past few centuries despite our "advances" in medicine.
Eating properly raised meat and poultry in appropriate amounts is necessary for good health for most (but not all) people. Vegetarianism can also be healthy for some people. It all depends on a myriad of factors, some of which a person is likely never to know.
But, this type of comment is exactly why i remove people from my friend's list who talk about their way of life as being better than another.
I think you may have partially misinterpreted my comment. It mostly was just curiosity about the osteoporosis-connection you brought up before (which, is probably related to other factors such as smoking, lack of exercise, etc. as well). Now, I know excessive animal product consumption is linked to increasing affluence, which is correlated with health problems in a great deal of ways. I also know that the aspects of industrialized animal husbandry that I (and, I believe, you) find offensive are related to applying the principles of mass production and profit maximization to living things... which, influence all justice issues and can't be isolated simply in eating meatcetera.
Anyways, the ultimate health implications of vegetarianism are complex and elude me. The cruelty and ecological toll of factory farming trouble me deeply and are my primary concern. As for health, I might say that people are free to eat what garbage they may, to hell with them if it comes back to them later, but this is ultimately a cynical mental model stemming from the first two problems. After all, people will regret any ignorance of their decisions once the consequences to their personal health catch up with them. So too would they regret their poor choices (whatever these may be) when they comprehend their manifestation in the deterioration of their physical environment, or in the suffering of other creatures.
So, my pre-eminent goal is to foster the physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being of the entire living system of earth, and the harmonious coexistence of its parts. Factory farming, as I see it, is a particularly grisly extreme of the disharmony that has been accelerating in the last few centuries. To what extent I am right about this, or about how to go about treating it (i.e., becoming a vegetarian, yapping about it constantly, et al...) is, in a crucial way entirely unrelated to my ego, or me as an individual. As in, even supposing my way of life were "better", under whatever criterion one might apply, it would be little more than luck on my part that this was so. The consequences of people's actions can have nothing to do with their motives for them.
I'm sorry that I stirred you the way I did, I didn't mean to. My comment was partially a product of a failure to communicate, partially a grave ignorance on my part... but the ignorance was something I could not have known until I left the comment and read your response. I believe that an inadequate understanding of each other's position was putting a rift between us. I mean, I agree with most if not all of what you said, such that at this point it's pretty unclear to me what precisely we don't agree upon. Knowing that, we've moved one step past our misunderstandings of each other--which in a broad sense are the cause of many hardships.
So, it's probably better we're not LJ friends, because I haven't yet figured out how not to be an asshole vegetarian, but I at least feel better off than I did a few days ago. It looks like we're on the same side. :)
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2007-10-31 04:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-31 06:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-31 06:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-31 09:29 pm (UTC);)
no subject
Date: 2007-11-02 01:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-09 07:18 pm (UTC)Anyway, that's not really a big deal, but I think you might want to check out my latest entry. Which is to say, I want you to check out my latest entry. :)
no subject
Date: 2007-11-09 07:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-09 08:43 pm (UTC)but have you ever considered becoming veg... never mind.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-23 11:23 pm (UTC)I mean... like, I'm trying not to be an overzealous veg-converter, but surely (for the sake of my curiosity) you've at least taken this into consideration?
no subject
Date: 2007-11-24 02:52 am (UTC)Eating properly raised meat and poultry in appropriate amounts is necessary for good health for most (but not all) people. Vegetarianism can also be healthy for some people. It all depends on a myriad of factors, some of which a person is likely never to know.
But, this type of comment is exactly why i remove people from my friend's list who talk about their way of life as being better than another.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-25 02:01 am (UTC)I think you may have partially misinterpreted my comment. It mostly was just curiosity about the osteoporosis-connection you brought up before (which, is probably related to other factors such as smoking, lack of exercise, etc. as well). Now, I know excessive animal product consumption is linked to increasing affluence, which is correlated with health problems in a great deal of ways. I also know that the aspects of industrialized animal husbandry that I (and, I believe, you) find offensive are related to applying the principles of mass production and profit maximization to living things... which, influence all justice issues and can't be isolated simply in eating meatcetera.
Anyways, the ultimate health implications of vegetarianism are complex and elude me. The cruelty and ecological toll of factory farming trouble me deeply and are my primary concern. As for health, I might say that people are free to eat what garbage they may, to hell with them if it comes back to them later, but this is ultimately a cynical mental model stemming from the first two problems. After all, people will regret any ignorance of their decisions once the consequences to their personal health catch up with them. So too would they regret their poor choices (whatever these may be) when they comprehend their manifestation in the deterioration of their physical environment, or in the suffering of other creatures.
So, my pre-eminent goal is to foster the physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being of the entire living system of earth, and the harmonious coexistence of its parts. Factory farming, as I see it, is a particularly grisly extreme of the disharmony that has been accelerating in the last few centuries. To what extent I am right about this, or about how to go about treating it (i.e., becoming a vegetarian, yapping about it constantly, et al...) is, in a crucial way entirely unrelated to my ego, or me as an individual. As in, even supposing my way of life were "better", under whatever criterion one might apply, it would be little more than luck on my part that this was so. The consequences of people's actions can have nothing to do with their motives for them.
I'm sorry that I stirred you the way I did, I didn't mean to. My comment was partially a product of a failure to communicate, partially a grave ignorance on my part... but the ignorance was something I could not have known until I left the comment and read your response. I believe that an inadequate understanding of each other's position was putting a rift between us. I mean, I agree with most if not all of what you said, such that at this point it's pretty unclear to me what precisely we don't agree upon. Knowing that, we've moved one step past our misunderstandings of each other--which in a broad sense are the cause of many hardships.
So, it's probably better we're not LJ friends, because I haven't yet figured out how not to be an asshole vegetarian, but I at least feel better off than I did a few days ago. It looks like we're on the same side. :)
no subject
Date: 2007-11-02 05:10 am (UTC)